Emil Ciurczak spoke with Mel Koch, who received an IFPAC Achievement Award recognizing his seminal work on process analytics development. For an audio file of the interview, click the Download Now button below the transcript.
EC: Im talking with Mel Koch, director of CPAC at the University of Washington. First of all, congratulations on your IFPAC award. If anyone deserves this recognition it is you. Where do you see the process industries, specifically pharmaceutical manufacturing, going with PAT? What will be some of the changes in the next 10 years?
MK: PAT is already an established approach in other industries. Food is going into it now because of heightened interest in safety and security. Within pharma, were still in a definition mode. What I hear at the conference is a lot about companies that are structuring PAT organizations, and approaches, not a lot of strong case studies in terms of, Heres a successful submission.
Its being compromised somewhat by a change in what FDA is looking now, in migrating from PAT. Its not that they are departing from PAT but theyre now emphasizing process understanding and QbD and saying you need to use PAT to achieve this, but really moving to Quality by Design.
I still pick up some confusion in the industry. A company just put together a PAT group, and now they ask whether they should they be assembling a QbD group instead. And should the PAT group then be addressing what QbD thinks they should do? Theres still sorting out and defining.
And then theres the low hanging fruit of final dosage forms, tableting, mixing...
EC: And raw materials?
MK: What do you mean?
EC: Well, thats just it. Theyre not sure. Theres just the ID for the chemistry, then theres the quality and theyre not sure about which quality. Theres a lot of talk about using physical parameters terms such as flowability, crushability. If you do NIR or Raman you get some, but not all, of this info.
MK: And thats giving you things like content uniformity and consistent delivery to final dosage form. When I think of raw materials, I think further back. I think that the next PAT frontier for pharma will be excipients.
EC: Things like lactose and talcs?
MK: Ive been working with the food industry, and they see the need to alter their processing based on the quality of raw materials. You come off a year of drought and you may have a different protein or fat value in the product than you had last year.
When you think of it, I dont know the actual number but its approaching 90% of excipients are naturally derived starch, lactose, stearates the industry will need to correct their processes based on periodic changes in these excipients. So you go back to formulary to pharmacopoeia which defines quality.
EC: They havent been updated since the Dark Ages.
MK: Then you take the next step into nutrients for biotech. You could buy pharmacopoeia grade molasses, but you will find that the quality will differ and results will too. Even from the same supplier, due to seasonal differences, performance will be different.
EC: Also yeast extracts The Pharmacopeia only tells you about absence of heavy metals and action, but not how fast it will ferment.
MK: I dont want to minimize the API and some of the content uniformity and those things but some of these will be influenced by changes in the excipient.
EC: So, please tell me about your little shindig in Italy.
MK: This is only the second year. But it will be difficult to continue it in Italy. What weve done has come out of our summer institute at CPAC in Seatlle. What weve focused on for over 12 years is on a theme of miniaturization being important for unit ops and also the sensors and analyzers that control those operations.
We got a request to take this concept and parts of it such as process intensification (growing rapidly in chemical industry), and high process throughput, and take them elsewhere, so we decided to take it to Rome. We have historical ties there.
We wound up with 40 people coming from Europe and North America Idea was to rotate it throughout Europe. Folks in UK wanted to host it for second year. But it went so well in Rome that they asked if they could postpone it for another year.
So this year were going to do it in Rome, but it will be hosted by three UK universities: Hull, Strathclyde and Newcastle, as well as Eindhoven in Holland.
Plan still is to do it in UK next year, but maybe theyll want to go back to Rome.
EC: As they say, "held over by popular demand." For the 11 people out there who dont know what CPAC is, what do you do?
MK: Well its a consortium drawing together multi-industrial representatives together with government agencies in a multidisciplinary environment. Well have as many as 10 academic disciplines involved.
We have most industries coming and the reason for continuing to focus on the multi-industrial approach, is the fact that there are so many cases showing how advances in one industry can apply to solve problems in other industries.
Consider the paper industry. They have their own association and a group of vendors that track developments in that trade group. Paper people arent thinking about whats going on in biotech, yet the approaches that they are using are very similar.
Consider another example. Weve developed a way for Boeing to monitor the coatings on the wings of airplanes. Exposing that to a multidisciplinary group, we found that same technology could be used for tablet coatings, for monitoring photographic film coatings, paints and other applications. Moving things between industries is one of our strengths.